Driffield Conservatives, with Felicity Temple, Symon Fraser and Barbara Hall

Sledmere Fire Proposals

"Verbatim" Notes from Sledmere Fire Meeting – 30 January 2008 - These notes also appear in the News Story entitled "Sledmere, Fimber, Cowlam and Cottam Residents Quiz Fire Service Chief''

Cllr Symon Fraser opened the meeting by explaining that the purpose was to hear at first hand, to talk and get the facts from the Fire Services Officers who had been invited by the three Driffield & Rural Ward Councillors, himself, Cllr Felicity Temple and Cllr Barbara Hall.

The FBU had been invited and were expected but Dave CollingwoodÂ’s apologies were received from the floor. Symon also explained that the Humberside Fire and Rescue Service (HFRS) was a separate body from the East Riding of Yorkshire Council, and set their own precept independently of council tax.

He then introduced Cllr Peter Turner of the Humberside Fire Authority and the Fire Officers present; Chief Fire Officer Frank Duffield, DCFO Mazen Khuri, ACO Richard Hannigan and Group Manager Steve Waterson.

CFO Frank Duffield then addressed the meeting, thanking the residents for coming and the ward members for arranging the meeting. HFRS had always intended to come as part of their consultation process and were happy to be here now. They had six sets of proposals and it was important to him that the consultation reached all those affected. Their proposals had been thoroughly tested by modelling trials with computers and they had confidence they were effective. He introduced his colleagues and explained they would deal with their specific areas shortly,.

He then laid out why the HFRS was in the present position – because 3 years ago there was a very damaging dispute in the Fire Service – Firefighters were on strike. The outcome of that was that the Government looked at how the service could be delivered in a different way. The service had been based on the 1947 Fire Services Act which meant that Fire Stations were build based on property risk, i.e. industrial areas and town centres, not positioned around the risk to life. This risk to life became the focus in 2004.

The priority in delivering services:

Prevention - by means of education

Protection - by design of commercial properties, sprinklers and smoke alarms.

Respond - responding to all incidents, fire and Road Traffic Accidents and chemical incidents etc.

However, the service needs resources to help prevent fires and other incidents. Before 2000 there were 9 or 10 fatalities per year, but since 2001/2 this had improved, and over the last three years there had only been 2 fatalities in the whole of Humberside, with a population of nearly one million. FirefightersÂ’ engagement in community safety has been the main reason for this improvement.

They were told in 2004 to look at Fire Stations and ensure they were where the life risk is. This process has taken time. Three and a half years later, they wanted it to be right, checked the facts and felt the proposals were feasible and the process sound. They presented the proposals to the Humberside Fire Authority (HFA) on 14th December 2007 and asked for and received approval to consult with the public, which they have been doing since before Christmas and it finishes on 31st March this year. They will present the results of the consultation to the HFA on 11th April 2008.

Humberside covers the four Unitary Authorities of East Riding of Yorkshire Council, Kingston upon Hull, North Lincs and North East Lincs. The six sets of proposals were outlined (detail later).

If these proposals go ahead it will free up resources to make the service better. CFO Duffield acknowledged that the service was not as good as it could be. Some things they cannot do at present, but they should be able to.

Richard Hannigan, Assistant Chief Fire Officer and responsible for service delivery across Humberside then took the floor to present the implementation plans.

He said that all four officers present tonight were professional firefighters, and all attend fires from time to time, they are not just managers. Nothing he would say devalues the work of their Firefighters, but they want to ensure they have proper training and are fully equipped.

If resources are freed up they would be used wisely:

  • On training for floods, underwater rescue and rescue from height, this yearÂ’s floods proved the need for this
  • On up to date specialist equipment
  • On state of the art protective clothing. A new standard from National Procurement for all 1000 members of staff at ÂŁ1,000 per person would cost ÂŁ1m
  • In RTAs – more equipment needed on each appliance to get people out of wrecks quicker, to get them to hospital within the golden hour
  • On Risk Information on incidents. In a modern world they often have to deal with chemicals. Only 8 of the (49) fire engines currently have a live computer link.
  • By continuing to promote fire prevention in dwellings, which was centrally funded but now this initiative needs to be funded locally by the HFRS. The benefits are that the predicted average is 6 fatalities per year, HFRSÂ’s is only 2 or 3, so confident that this has contributed
  • On education of and engagement with youths to prevent attacks on firefighters but it also has a benefit more widely in the community

Can only do these if resources are freed up.

Steve Waterson then explained detail. It was an analysis of factual information, they started from scratch because the Government said, “Do it differently.”

The Proposals are:

Hull Close Central Station and move resources to North and West Stations

ERYC Close Sledmere

Replace one wholetime pump at Goole with RDS pump

N Lincs Remove one wholetime pump from Immingham West

Close Kirton in Lindsey (similar to Sledmere)

NE Lincs Close Waltham (also RDS but with a wholetime pump a close neighbour)

There followed a slide showing a table of Proposed Standards

Dwelling Fires Very High and High Risk 8 Minutes on 90% of occasions

Dwelling Fires Medium Risk 12 Mins on 90% of occasions

“ “ Low Risk 20 Mins on 90% of occasions

RTCs (crashes) 15 Mins on 90% “

Societal Risk (Other Buildings)* 2 pumps within 7 minutes on 90% occ

Major Incidents 10 pumps within 45 minutes on 90%

Second pump attending Within 5 minutes of 1st on 80%

These standards were an improvement as previously they had 75% of occasions as a target. The RTCs standard is set for the first time. Societal really means multiple occupancy, such as Hotels or Office Blocks – not many in the East Riding. Major incidents can include LPG Tankers and Chemicals etc.

Explaining the need for two appliances, the first team is the effective one for rescues. The Second backs up the first they provide more water (can connect to a more remote hydrant) or send in a Breathing Apparatus team to ventilate the building or help out the 1st team if they get into difficulty.

On the slide showing where the various risks were plotted he said:

These standards are superior to the previous ones and the proposals have been based on seven risk parameters – those at highest risk (in areas of deprivation) such as Lone Pensioners, Single Parents, those with Long Term Illness and those in Rented Accommodation. Also includes the last five years’ data of dwelling fires in each area and the casualty rates and also the fatality rates for each area.

Very High Risk Areas were: Bransholme Estate, Anlaby & Hessle Road and Beverley Road in Hull and GrimsbyÂ’s Dock area at Westmarsh. Only Hull had societal risk.

High Risk were Cottingham, Goole and Bridlington in ERYC area (and the rest of Hull not marked as very high risk).

There were no medium risk areas shown in the ERYC area, the rest of the map was Low Risk.

He then showed a slide with Sledmere StationÂ’s area, which covered a shallow strip, Fridaythorpe to Langtoft, including Wetwang but not Garton, and all within the ERYC boundary. Firefighters here are contracted to respond within 5 minutes if alerted. They carry alerters with them. They then mount the pump and leave the station. The minimum number of Firefighters per pump is four. In recent years there have been difficulties recruiting personnel. He showed a slide which demonstrated that between 60 and 80% of the time there was no cover. A further slide showed that since 14 December the pump had been unavailable for more than 95% of the time. Firefighters have to declare their availability.

At this point Steve Thomas from Sledmere Fire Station offered a reason for this – that it was due to long term sickness and one lady Firefighter had just recently had a baby.

There followed a slide with a table showing

Incidents Reported within the Sledmere Area in 2007

Total No Primary Secondary Special Services Chimney

(property) (rubbish, grass etc) e.g. RTCs

20 3 2 6 7

then a slide showing

Incidents Attended by the Sledmere Appliance

Total Primary Secondary Special Chimney False Alarms

6 1 2 1 2 0

30% 33.3% 100% 16.6% 28.6%

Additionally the slide showed that the Sledmere Appliance had attended 2 incidents over the border in North Yorkshire, and 3 other incidents out of their station area within ERYC.

A question was asked from the floor – “If you turn out from Driffield would you reach the 20 minute target?” The answer was “Yes.”

A slide on station activity showed that Sledmere was the least active with 20 incidents, Kirton in Lindsey second from bottom had 43, and Snaith, next on the list was at 45. Driffield was well up in the market towns at 193 but Beverley had 451 and was well down compared with the larger conurbations on the South Bank and Hull Central was the busiest with 1852.

A slide then showed two discreet “Isochrones” (like isobars on a meterological pressure map), i.e. lines joining the distances along roads around Sledmere that would take a) 10 mins or b) 15 mins. This demonstrated (with the 5 minute response time to get on the road) the areas that could be reached within 20 minutes. It was stressed that these were conservative timings, based on average speed of 25mph. A further slide of the Sledmere area showed just one RTA where a casualty had been rescued out of the 5 total reported within the area in the last year.

The computer says the intervention model can be met

  • Service provision will be at LOWER COST with INSIGNIFICANT RISE in FIRE LOSSES and NEGLIGIBLE CHANGE to FIRE FATALITIES (ie not a change we will see in our lifetime)
  • Proposal is therefore sound and provides emergency cover for tax payers under best value principles

Frank Duffield then answered a question on whether cover could be provided from Driffield on 80% of occasions.

He said, this is based on fact. Timings are recorded every time the Sledmere crew turn out, when they arrive on scene, etc. all incidents have this type of recording, all 20,000 of them per year.

CFO Duffield said, ”It is an issue of Risk. Not to play on emotions, but we cannot be sure of the “competence” of Firefighters and do not want a fatality. Six calls a year is not enough experience to deal with complex incidents. Warwickshire have just lost four of their Firefighters. These proposals could alleviate that risk.”

Another question was asked on the variables used in the computer simulation. A comprehensive list including costings, pay scales, duty systems, shifts, demographics and deprivation data etc. was given in answer.

The questioner then asked if there was any empirical evidence – Had they tested it with an appliance. Answer – Yes, we have the recordings as just explained, they cannot be altered once booked on to the system.

Steve Thomas then cited two attendance times of the Driffield appliance for RTAs. One in Fridaythorpe reported at 4.48, first appliance there in 21 minutes. Second incident in Sledmere, reported at 6.49, also took 21 minutes to attend.

Answer by Steve Waterson was that trends are not proven by just two incidents, you need more data, anyone can prove anything on two pieces of information, itÂ’s not statistically accurate.

Another question asked was, if Sledmere was fully manned and dealt with 80% of the incidents would you still be looking at closing it?

Answer: These proposals are only on the basis of risk – the level of risk is low due to the low number of incidents.

Resident said they need 100% assurance. Answer: Sledmere is a very very low risk, it warrants the 20 minute standard but the level of risk does not warrant having the fire engine here.

Another question asked, if it has taken 3 years to come up with this presentation, have you been recruiting as well during this time?

Answer: Staff sweated blood to get people in. We applied the most modern national standard - some previous standards were draconian on their physical requirements, so this gives us the greatest opportunity to recruit. We have run campaigns and changed the system for the retained service. It is unique system. Before pay was based on the number of incidents attended, Retained Firefighters here now have a fixed salary, not directly linked to the number of calls and it costs us ÂŁ350,000 per year.

The questioner persisted with: In Wetwang and Fimber there is a weak signal from the mast, so you canÂ’t recruit from there.

Another resident said, “We feel we are not very important.”

Answer: For a fully manned station you need 9 Firefighters to crew two engines, but to get them you need to have 13, and if it is for 24 hours you need 52 Firefighters at a cost of £27,000+ each. We cannot justify having Firefighters not being occupied – we have to tailor the cover to give value for money.

Symon Fraser then asked: I would like to know what the plans are to give better fire protection cover for people in this area.”

Answer from Frank Duffield: The Fire Service has restructured, we are now co-terminus with the local authority areas. The Protection Unit is the same area as the ERYC, based at Beverley with 18 staff who deal amongst other things with child education. They visit schools and will see each child three times during their education. They also visit all villages, knocking on doors and fitting smoke detectors. Where there is the greatest risk they will also install sprinklers. Normally you need smoke detectors on each floor and they give advice on what to do in case of fire, and how to prevent it in the first place. We offer a Home Fire Risk Assessment. We need to concentrate on this. We need to visit all of the 174 homes in Sledmere on a regular basis. If there is no resource we will ensure you are not at risk. HFRS does not own the Fire Station, I will be speaking to Sir Tatton as I believe the building can only be used as a Fire Station, and will revert to the estate, but we would like to have staff here on perhaps a once a week basis, as a one stop shop or similar.

Symon: My second question is that it strikes me if you are going to service all these villages from Driffield, you will have to do this 100% of the time. Will you be putting in additional resources to fortify DriffieldÂ’s capacity?

Answer: We donÂ’t need any more to cope with just 20 reported incidents last year. We have no plans to bolster Driffield.

Q: Are both Driffield pumps available all the time? Driffield has 2 pumps, if they are both in use what happens then?

A: There are 3 stationed in Brid. They will reinforce on a ripple effect, when a pump is on a call out, they automatically back fill. When we had the Conoco incident in 2001 we had 20 appliances attending, from all over the county, and appliances from out of county came in to cover our area.

Stephen Greenfield, the Sledmere Estate Manager then gave a point of information: Whilst HFRS may not own the fire station, it was conveyanced to the County Council and does not belong to the Estate according to the Deeds.

Another question asked: what about an immediate response type of 4x4 with two firefighters and cutting equipment for RTAs?

Answer: The Minimum standard is 4 firefighters, two to do the job, one to man the pump and the other to co-ordinate and supervise. We wouldnÂ’t accept two Firefighters on their own from a risk assessment stand point.

Cllr Peter Turner, an ERYC Councillor from Holderness, who is a member of the Fire Authority then spoke. He talked of it not being an easy time, nobody wants to lose their fire station, but he paid tribute to the Firefighters, saying they were second to none.

CFO Duffield then promised that a leaflet, specifically for Sledmere, would be delivered to every letterbox in the area. On the back page there was a form inviting comments on the consultation proposals.

Steve Thomas asked if this type of meeting was b